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V8 Rail Build Log
E-mail between V8 Rail and I during the 19 months it took them
to build my car. Although this does not include all of the e-mail received from
them during the build, it represents pretty much the total communication I had
with them regarding status during the build. Since they typically do not
answer their phone and rarely return calls, e-mail was my primary form of
communication.
Common themes to look for:
Editorial comments are shown in red.
9/23/2003
Start date would be new year and finish date end of
march. That's with the current production. We try to speed it up .... so
maybe it will be earlier, but no guarantee there ;-)
Car
ordered with Redline 510 HP LS1.
11/19/2003
> Dune Trips?
> How about the Dumont cleanup? March 13?
our goal is to have your car finished by then .... would be cool, but that
would be ahead of shedule ...
1/8/2004
soo then a problem we discovered with redline ...
Ryan was driving the fourseater with the 510 HP redline engine and he was
disappointed ...
engine was very "pipy". there was no power until you hit certain
rpms and when he was thinking no it runs .... it hits the rev limiter the
power band is that narrow that when you shift up you are falling out of it
Ryan has driven Kelly's stock LS1, Rolands turnkey and susan's redline and he
was telling us kelly's has not the most power, but it is the fastest car from
this three...
Then Mike (redline) can not reprogram the computer by himself, he gets them
ready to put on I did not like that it runs without O2 sensor .... so it is
not closed loop and it will not adjust to altitude changes I did the last two
days some research and I'm pretty sure you will not be happy with that engine
Paul (Sandblower on the board) first ordered a redline and after this he goes
with a fuel injected SBC I can get you out of the redline deal .... and I
would ... but it is your decision ...
V8 Rail says a Redline LS1 not good in their cars.
Biggest mistake I made was being convinced by Thomas to cancel order with
Redline and go with Speed-o-motive. My Speed-o-motive engine lasted two
trips.
More
info.
3/16/2004
> I am nervous about what failed in Brent's car. I really don't want
> to have to worry about changing stub axles. Please let me know what
> the result of your investigation is.
I'm not ... Brent has the old style upright .... he has still some $$$$
open, so we did no warranty work at his car.
with the old upright the aluminum flange got loose and that most likely
destroyed something there ... and Brent did never check a bolt at his car ...
I don't know when we know ... he is out of money and most likely sells the car
before he does repair.....
As luck would have it, I broke a CV almost two years
after this because the bolt holding the CV flange in place comes loose. V8 Rail
blames the customer first here for a fault in their own design. Another
sign I should have seen earlier. I was blamed as well when the same thing
happened to me.
*** See pictures and detail here.
>
You tell me that I should get the rail by mid-April if the engine is
> on time. But Stephan doesn't
know if my car will be done in time for
> the
Idaho
trip. Someone is wrong, and I hope that it is Stephan.
But
> after listening to stories from Ryan, Greg and Kelly, I am beginning
> to think that it is your schedule. No matter what, I believe there is
> a pretty major lack of honest communication going on, and I don't want
> to end up like Greg. I don't think you want me to end up like Greg either.
So
here I have to do some clearing, would be better at the cleanup,
easier to communicate
first
Stephan is sure that he was not
telling you that you will not
have your car for the
Idaho
trip ...
then Ryan, I'm pretty sure he told you that many delays in his car was
because he could not work at it or he was thinking he has it faster
ready. Ryan's car had never a schedule.
then Kelly, I was sure that his comments make you nerveous ... Kelly
would have a finished car for a long time (the first frame we builded
for him his running since early november last year. He wanted an
upgraded version, so we started again ... Kelly knows that there are not
many builders that change some things with shortest notice ... hes first
car would be on time when we had builded it like we offered it together
with the first schedule ...
the same for the second car..
Defamatory statements about
another V8 Rail owners removed.
so in closing, I have send you a schedule and I still stick to it ;-)
Thomas
Original
completion date comes and goes.
4/19/2004
completion
date : we need two weeks prior powdercoating and about four weeks for assembly.
5/6/2004
Jon,
I picked up your engine ... finally.
in our online photo gallery under "under construction" are three
pictures. will tomorrow evening upload some more, after dressing up that
engine a little
Thomas
Thomas picks up engine from
Speed-o-motive but apparently fails to verify parts. 10 months from now he
will blame Speed-o-motive for delays because they didn't supply a starter,
pulleys and ignition box. A prudent businessman would check for a complete order
and clarify right then. Thomas never mentions that anything is missing to me or
Speed-o-motive. I am sure that he knew what was actually included, but fails to
order other parts until after they need them.
V8 Rail moves from Hesperia, CA to
Ash Fork, AZ. Basically no visible progress and very little communication
for 2 - 3 months.
7/6/2004
Jon,
I got your message ... what should I say...
status :
I need to find an intake and then we can work the panels around it ... I
work on that I need to find a powder coater I'm happy with ... I'm working on
that too
Your car needs the upper panel work and the exhaust done and then it is
ready for powder coater
I later find out that they need to finish the arms, and
this takes a few more months.
It was really not planned that the buildup of your car would fall into our
move ... it's unfortunate and I would like to have it different, but I can not
change it . the whole move is way bigger time problem then I was thinking (but
also was the first AND hopefully for a long time last we did ;-).
This is not a excuse ... and we work as hard as we can to get it back to
normal ...
As soon as I found the pc and the intake I will give you a new timeframe we
can stand behind ..
Thomas
A month later, I finally get the
"timeframe we can stand behind"
8/4/2004
after
discussion yesterday evening and some sleep over it .... thats how we hope it
will happen :
time to finish the car about 2 weeks
powder coating 3 to 10 business days
assembling 3 more weeks
Thomas
So let's just count that as 7 more
weeks. By their schedule, it should be to powder coat before end of August.
Should be completed by end of September.
8/16/2004
>Coming
up on your two week estimate to complete the car for powder coat.
>
>
when everything works out fine it will go into powdercoat next week ...
I'm
on the way to phoenix to pick up some stuff and I try to stop at the
powdercoater to check it out....
They were no where near ready for
powder coat at this point. Just another lie to placate me.
8/25/2004
car
status :
No
it will not go into powder coat this week .... main reason is because of the
much greater distance to the powder coater we have to bring the complete car
down . before we brought first the frame and until it was coated we did the
rest.
so
basically it takes us another week
to prep, but the the final completion should not move and we still plan it to be
around the SSSS
Always an excuse from Thomas.
Never his fault. Amazingly, the completion date doesn't change, even though
three of seven weeks have passed and it still is not at the powder coaters.
9/2/2004
>
Thomas,
>
> Where are you at with my rail? Is it going to be at the powder coaters
> this week?
>
> Jon
>
Jon,
It
is a long storry, but in short we still did not get the right material to do the
suspension arms. We shuold finally get it later today or tomorrow and then we
can make the last missing parts.
How
hard is it to get the steel for your suspension arms? And why wouldn't a builder
have that kind of supplies on the shelf? Early August schedule to have the car
at the powder coaters before end of August passes.
9/9/2004
>How
can your estimates continually be so far off?
>
that's
why I did not like to give you an date. There are too many surprises with moving
a shop ...
and
had also some bad luck ... but I have no time to write it down...
Always defensive and short on detail.
9/22/2004
>
We are planning to be at
Dumont
for Thanksgiving. Are you going to
be
> there? Do you think my car
can be done?
>
> Jon
Thanksgiving
Q: No and Yes ;-)
we
have not planned to be there at Thanksgiving. our third engine blow when we was
out at
Dumont
a week ago ... damn we need a new car....
Yours
and Kelly's car will be finished before we start fixing our car ...
and
yes your car will be finished ...
Confident in his new delivery date -
before Thanksgiving. Two cars completed before Thanksgiving.
In reality, my car won't be done
for another 7 months. Kelly's car won't be done for another
13 months.
10/28/2004
Jon,
finally
the internet is backup, that damn satellite does not like snow ;-)
so
the status...
I
got lied two times by AFCO that the suspension parts I need to finish your car
(and Kelly's) are on the way. booth times I got stuff from them, but not what I
needed. To make the storry short, I was monday at a machineshop in
Prescott
and ordered them there. I should get them early next week and then finally we
can do the suspension.
More lies and excuses from V8
Rail. New plans made to get around those pesky suppliers that lie to V8
Rail. You will also notice that several times they will have the wrong part
delivered. Car still hasn't gone to powder coat.
11/30/2004
>
Thomas,
>
> Did my car make it to powder coat yet?
>
> Jon
>
Jon,
they
still work on Kelly's car. It is now four weeks that they have it ....
Thomas
End
of November. Still not to powder coat.
1/3/2005
>
How is Kelly’s car coming?
Kelly
... he has already a lot of stuff at his place and now with the personal problem
flashpoint has all needs to come back to us. We still try to get a date
together. We was hoping to do it with a Dumont trip, but we could not get out
with our truck after the big storm last week ...
1/16/2005
>
Thomas,
>
> Is my car done at the powder coaters?
>
> Jon
Jon,
car
is coated, got the call late friday ...
I
will pick it up tomorrow (hopefully they are open )
Thomas
Car done at powder coaters.
Based on their previous assembly estimates, it should only take 3 - 4 weeks to
have the car done.
31/21/05
Jon,
hit some little problems ...like we ordered the engine complete but
Speedomotive did not include the starter (Hi Torque ordered last friday) and
the ignition enhancer box (will call August this morning what I need and order
it right away) and a missing shipment from FEDEX (again a new guy and they
still do not have the drop places in a database), but else it comes along
fine.
first plan was next weekend , but it may needs some more days.
what dates you can make it out?
Thomas
Why are they just ordering these
parts now? Engine was picked up 10 months ago, and they are just now
ordering missing parts. And again, V8 Rail blames some other guy for their
delays.
3/21/2005
first
plan was next weekend , but it may needs some more days.
what
dates you can make it out?
Over
a month late on their assembly estimates, and still working on it.
3/22/2005
then
weekend, this comming weekend flies out the window, next should be possible ....
but
I have to remind you also that when we bring the car out to
Dumont
it will be on a open flatbed trailer, so we have to watch the weather .... but
it could be also during the week ...
Thomas
3/26/2005
>Thomas,
>
>Any thoughts yet on pickup date?
>
>Jon
Jon
,
16th
sounds fine to me
Thomas
4/6/2005
Jon,
running
currently around to get the final stuff, It looks good for 16th , will give you
a little later a detailed update (and pics with exhaust and driveshaft in)
Thomas
4/12/2005
>
On 4 wheels yet?
Jon,
no...
...
but still is looking good for late saturday evening or sunday morning ...
more
later ... grab also the camera for some more pics...
Thomas
4
days before scheduled delivery and they still don't have it on all 4
wheels. Translation - they are still working on getting parts to finish
up.
4/14/2005
Jon,
Friday
would be fine ...
and
Dumont
is also fine (or when it safes you some driving time we could do Amargosa ...
it is the same for us ....)
so
except the ignition box the engine is complete and we primed it yesterday ...
oil press fine and all looks ok
Thomas
4/14/2005
>
Did you get the front end on the ground yet?
working
on it ...
Thomas
V8 rail could not get car running, so it was taken to
DanZio for diagnosis and tuning. V8 Rail blames Speed-o-motive for everything.
"Missing" parts from Speed-o-motive not ordered until late instead of
dealing with the situation when the engine was delivered from Speed-o-motive
almost a year ago.
4/23/2005
Had a long phone call with Chris (DanZio),
so your car is still planned for midweek tune and when all works fine should be
done in about a day.
4/28/2005
Picked up car at DanZio
Assembly time: 3 months. Expected assembly time from V8
Rail: 3 - 4 weeks. Pretty typical actually. Just multiply their estimate
by 3 to 4 and you get a more realistic estimate.
V8 Rail handled all communication with engine builder
(Speed-o-motive) including payment and pickup. But after I had problems with the
engine after first trial run, V8 Rail would have nothing to do with them.
I had to start a relationship from scratch to sort through all of the
problems. In the end Speed-o-motive did me right and covered the parts for the
engine rebuild. V8 Rail blamed everything on Speed-o-motive. Who knows where all
of the responsibility lied.
Common V8 Rail Themes:
- Failure to communicate
V8 Rail will rarely, if ever, answer their phone.
E-mail correspondence is best, but expect weeks and sometimes months to pass
without any substantial information. This is typically your sure sign
that no progress is being made.
Physical Location: V8 Rail moved to Ash Fork, AZ during my build. They are
off the power grid and not very accessible. Since their other forms of communication
are so bad, it would help if you could stop in and check on their
progress in person. This was once possible when they lived in
Hesperia, CA. Now it is extremely difficult.
- Blame the supplier for the delay
Thomas: "got lied two times by AFCO that the suspension parts I need to finish your car
(and Kelly's) are on the way."
- Over promise
Me: We are planning to be at
Dumont
for Thanksgiving. Do you think my car
can be done?
Thomas: yes your car will be finished ...
- Blame your customer
Me: I am nervous about what failed in Brent's car. I really don't want
to have to worry about changing stub axles. Please let me know what
the result of your investigation is.
Thomas: I'm not ... Brent has the old style upright .... he has still
some $$$$ open, so we did no warranty work at his car.
with the old upright the aluminum flange got loose and that most likely
destroyed something there ... and Brent did never check a bolt at his car
...
I don't know when we know ... he is out of money and most likely sells the
car before he does repair.....
- We are too busy to properly communicate.
Me: How
can your estimates continually be so far off?
Thomas: that's
why I did not like to give you an date. There are too many surprises with moving
a shop ...
and
had also some bad luck ... but I have no time to write it down...
I find it interesting that Thomas and Stephan seem to find
plenty of time to post on GlamisDunes.com
(spooner & v8rail) and various truck conversion sites, but they don't have
time to take pictures of their own customer's rails or answer emails and PMs.
They currently have several sand rail projects that are over two years in the
making. These projects are being ignored while they apparently shift gears
into building truck conversions.
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